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Igrarije sa filterima za struju

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Re: Igrarije sa filterima za struju

Post by DejanM » 13 Mar 2010, 16:42

Now we have it in written .... :D

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Re: Igrarije sa filterima za struju

Post by DejanM » 05 Apr 2010, 12:23

Ovo izgleda jako interesantno:

http://www.youtube.com/v/iL1Wjeq7eHY&hl ... autoplay=1

Teoretski, aktivni regeneratori AC bi trebalo da daju bolji efekat od pasivnih cleanera i filtera. Ova PS Audio sprava je prepuna interesantnih features (THD analizator, daljinac - da pomenem samo par) i zapravo predstavlja neku vrstu pojacala.

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Re: Igrarije sa filterima za struju

Post by DejanM » 07 Apr 2010, 13:21

Yes it has. Accuphase is though more expencieve.

But take a look into PS Audio new filters (passive) which have some very interesting features. They are capable of recording the behaviour of mains supply and storing it somewhere on the server in the net. There is a web interface so that you actually can see how your mains supply behaves during the day ... week or even month. Nice feature ... It is also administratable from web, remotly, .... PS Audio used every buzzword that exists today: cloud, web, THD analyser, ....

I do not know how effective they are but certainly they offer some nice features ....

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Re: Igrarije sa filterima za struju

Post by DejanM » 07 Apr 2010, 14:30

When you say isolate your AC I guess you mean to have an isolation transformer, right ? If that is correct, I will need quite huge isolation transformer .... which is expencieve. Another possibility is to have isolation transformer for every unit. That is even better solution because you can have appropriate sizing for that particular unit plus the inter-unit influence over AC will be broken. But that is even more expencieve solution.

Your own ground .... I didn't quite understood this one. The ground should be the same one coming from AC installation (according to the regulations). Maybe you thought that we should have additional piece of fat wire (10 mm) in a star configuration connected to every unit ? That would be something ... :D

But this PS Audio is one possible and viable solution. Not for large amps but for the rest of the system. And it is cheap in comparison with isolation transformers and theoretically should provide even better behaviour ....

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Re: Igrarije sa filterima za struju

Post by DejanM » 07 Apr 2010, 15:04

4 KW is huge ... but really huge ... pfu ... :shock: I think that I wouldn't even have a place where to put it.

The story with the ground - now I understand it. But you have to have a house for something like that ... I guess. One question: did you connected the separate (HiFi) ground with the installation ground ?

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Re: Igrarije sa filterima za struju

Post by zika » 07 Apr 2010, 20:06

Gerner wrote:What is the price of the PS audio converter?
Bio je oko 2000 evara... Realno, manje od 1500..

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Re: Igrarije sa filterima za struju

Post by DejanM » 09 Apr 2010, 10:48

zika wrote:
Gerner wrote:What is the price of the PS audio converter?
Bio je oko 2000 evara... Realno, manje od 1500..
Kod Slobe BM ima nov za 1300 eura ...

http://www.bm.rs/construction.html

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Re: Igrarije sa filterima za struju

Post by DejanM » 09 Apr 2010, 16:38

Gerner wrote:Hi Dejan

I know Slobo has ISOTEK similar devices. I have bought some ISOTEK devices from him.

Have no clue if ISOTEK's active conditioners is much different than PS's is?

The best ever I bought from him is my Maggies and the Finite Elemente Pagode audio rack. :D

LP
Gerner
I think that Isotek does not have any active AC regenerators like this PS Audio. Even Titan is a nine stage passive filter but not AC regenerator. So this PS Audio would be interesting thing to try ....

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Re: Igrarije sa filterima za struju

Post by DejanM » 09 Apr 2010, 18:22

I believe I know that feeling. But it can deceive you. You never know ... really. The good thing with this PS Audio PPP is that it has THD analyser, so it can show to you how bad is it on the input and then what you get at the output. PS Audio claims that whatever garbage comes in, this PPP will give only 0,3% THD at the output. That is pritty good and I do not believe that you can come even close to that with the passive filter. But how does it really affects that what we hear - that is something that I do not know ... It should be audable though ....

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Re: Igrarije sa filterima za struju

Post by DejanM » 10 Apr 2010, 08:48

Gerner,

Before I take a closer look into your stuff (although I did it once in the past) I have an idea. You are much closer to BM than I am. I guess that it would be possible for you to borrow this PS Audio PPP unit and test it at your home. You have a pritty good passive set of AC filtering components so you would be able also to provide a comparison. That would put much more light on efficiency of Ac regenerators in comparison to the passive filters.

What do you say ?

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Re: Igrarije sa filterima za struju

Post by DejanM » 10 Apr 2010, 10:38

Great. Thanks for it ... I am looking forward to hear your experiences with this unit and how it performs in comparison with your gear .... =D> :good :sign

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Re: Igrarije sa filterima za struju

Post by DejanM » 14 May 2010, 15:06

Interesting products ... Red Wine has also these HiFi baterry units which have their own power loaders. Interesting units, too.

Did you do anything about PS Audio PPP ? On the Hi End show in Muenchen, this unit was the star of the show. Many used it. On the alternative show in Le Meridien - the very same thing !

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Re: Igrarije sa filterima za struju

Post by DejanM » 22 May 2013, 16:21

Citajuci clanke o strujnim filterima, dosao sam do zakljucka da su aktivfni uredjaji, tzv. regeneratori, bolje resenje od pasivnih strujnih filtera. Zbog toga sam onda i kupio PS Audio PPP aktivni strujni Regenerator i za izvesno vreme ove moje igrarije ostavio po strani. A nisam vise ni imao potrebe za strujnim filterima posto je PS Audio PPP dobro odradjivao svoj posao. Problem sa pasivnim strujnim filterima lezi u tome da njihova efikasnost zavisi od impedanse uredjaja koji se napaja preko tog filtera. Zbog toga je veoma tesko napraviti pasivni filter koji ce sa svim uredjajima i pod svim uslovima da pruza dobre rezultate. Tako da je tu negde, u tim razmisljanjima, splasnuo i moj entuzijazam za strujnim filterima ....

Pre izvesnog vremena medjutim naletim u ormanu na ovaj pomalo zaboravljeni Lundahl razdvojni trafo i onda odlucim da ipak sklopim jedan pasivni strujni filter. Koristio sam ovde vec iznetu semu uz male modifikacije: koristio sam P2P vezivanje bakarnom zicom od 2,5 dok sam za masu koristio 4 mm. Stavio sam vece vrednosti za kondenzatore izmedju nule i faze (2 komada od po 0,68 uF) dok sam varistore kompletno izbacio iz designa. Lundahl LL1655 je dosao na samom izlazu. Obe uticnice su Furutech Gold, dok je izveden i terminal za uzemljenje. Kuciste je od masivnog aluminijuma.

Jos dok je bio na dasci ovaj filter je pokazivao razlicite efekte. U prvoj probi sa mojim portabilnim mini-discom se pokazao odlicno, znacajno smanjivsi pozadinski sum. Kada sam ga medjutim zakacio u moj B sistem i probao sa pojacalom, DVD playerom i tunerom - nikakva razlika u zvuku se nije mogla cuti. Ipak sam odlucio da ga sklopim ...
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Sada ovako sklopljenog sam ga zakacio na B sistem i pokusasvam da ustanovim da li proizvodi neki efekat ...

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Re: Igrarije sa filterima za struju

Post by DejanM » 25 May 2013, 07:03

Nerki prvi utisci posle jedno dva-tri dana intenzivnog slusanja ... U strujni filter sam prvo bocnuo moj Sony DVD Player, koji je radio kao CD Player. Potom sam bocnuo DAC Shiit Audio Gungnir i ostatak vremena je radila ta kombinacija.

Ono sto se odmah uoci jeste "produbljenje i prociscenje" basa. Taj bas je jasniji, cistiji ali i dublji. Nemoralno je kakav bas izlazi iz mojih malih i jeftinih kutija (B&W 601 S3). Ostatak frekventnog spektra se nije bitnije promenio ali sve svira malo drugacije. Za neku nijansu je zvuk fokusiraniji, instrumenti bolje pozicionirani ali mi se cini da je neka "leprsavost" u prezentaciji zamenjena nekom vrstom stroge, "nemacke", definicije. Ne umem to bolje da objasnim. Visoki su tu kao i pre ali je pozadina tamnija a i zvucna slika se nesto povukla unazad. Ja volim medjutim onu "leprsavost" ...

U svakom slucaju razlike nisu velike ali se cuju i nisu beznacajne. Interesantno je da sam spontano poceo da odvrcem potenciometar za glasnocu. Jednostavno sam zeleo da slusam jos vise tog basa. Pricinjava zadovoljstvo ... Zbog tog odvrtanja nisam siguran da li ceo sistem svira dinamicnije nego ranije, ali na pojedinim stvarima Imam utisak da ce sistem da eksplodira od dinamike - kao da je neko ubrizgao nesto u njega pa je postao Bonga-Bonga ... ali to moze da bude i posledica glasnog slusanja - tu nisam siguran. Moracu narednih dana da ponovo vratim sve na staro pa da vidim sta ce da se desi. Ali to cu nerado da uradim ...

U svakom slucaju ovo mi je otvorilo apetit za daljnje igrarije sa strujom. Imam vec i neke nove ideje ... Interesantno je medjutim da je ovaj filter pokazivao drugaciji efekat dok je bio na dasci. Tada nije pravio nikakvu razliku. Sve je ostalo isto izuzev sto su zice skracene, sto su konektori bolji (tada sam koristio obicne sporetske koji se kupuju po samouslugama), i sto je broj kontakata smanjen (u prototip varijanti sam koristio na par mesta kleme da bih povezao zice) i sto sad ima kuciste koje je uzemljeno - mase su sada vezane zvezdasto, dok kod prototipa nije postojala ova zvezda konfiguracija. Razlika je medjutim dosta velika ... cudno ...

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Re: Igrarije sa filterima za struju

Post by kamen » 27 May 2013, 01:13

Dejane,

Nista nije cudno, usput pisao sam vec moje razmisljanje o konektorima odnosno o "prekidu na putu"
t.e. svaki konektor ipak je zakrpa na putu.


Pozz

p.s. Slicna su moja zapazanja u vezi filtera za struju,
ali ipak ima tu vise stvari koje treba uzeti u obzir osim kvaliteta filtera za struju/odnosno nacina na koj je uradjen,
a to je pre svega (po mom misljenju) subjektivnost mreze za napajanje na nasim sistemima.
to znaci da svako od nas ima ili nema vise ovakvih ili onakvih "zagadzivaca naponske mreze" tako da rezultati mogu da variraju
i to u toku 24h posebno ako u komsijama imate neku mini radionicu ili kao moj drug pored svega ostalog i lift u zgradi u kojoj zivi.

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