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WLAN zvucnici

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DejanM
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Re: WLAN zvucnici

Post by DejanM » 16 Jan 2012, 18:00

Yes ... interesting what David Wilson is saying ....

First, I must strongly disagree with his answer to the question: what about active speakers .... He said that it looks very nice on paper but ... and then he didn't provide any answer further but rather started to talk about consumers and what they like ... or what he believes that they like. It seems that the decision of Wilson Audio not to produce active speakers is purely market driven and has nothing to do with Hi Fidelity as such.

But then he talks about good cooperation with Audio Research and how he doesn't want to enter the area that has been already possessed by another (friendly) company. From Ayon guys, who tried several years ago to position Ayon speakers in US (and invested some considerable amounts of money in that business) I heard some very bad things about David Wilson and what he did to protect his market share in US. The guy didn't told me the whole story but he was outrageous about Wilson Audio and their practices against the competition, especially if it is coming from Europe and attacking the same market segment as he does.

It seems that there is a kind of market separation between several big players in US and all the others are pushed down. Very often good connections in politics, press and media are used to achieve that goal.

But... nevertheless.. . Wilson Audio speakers are really good. Everything I heard from them, and I heard everything they produced in last 10 years, is excellent speaker technology. Actually something to dream of ...

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Re: WLAN zvucnici

Post by DejanM » 16 Jan 2012, 18:53

I accept that as an argument. As a marketing argument. But that is not a technical argument. The fact that some people like to be "creative" is ok, but the question was something else: is the concept of active speaker superior one in a technical sense ... in a sense of providing better results - better fidelity ?

That is something he didn't reply, probably because he is very deep in the business and there the idealistic concepts are of no importance. What is important is whether you can sell your product or not ...

But somehow it does sound disappointing. From a guy of his reputation I was expecting to hear much more than usual business labala about what customers need/want ...

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Re: WLAN zvucnici

Post by prophet » 16 Jan 2012, 20:49

These are the active ones to get:

http://www.thevintageknob.org/yamaha-GF-1.html

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Re: WLAN zvucnici

Post by PrekoBare » 16 Jan 2012, 21:15

Dejane, types like Wilson are not in hi-fi business to expand the boundaries of audio quality, they are in it for money. He and those similar to him perfected the art of milking dead cow. $1000 speakers of 20 years ago should cost $3000 adjusted for inflation. Instead, they are adjusted for greed and priced $13,000 or more. This is sheer lunacy.

The only comparable BS industry I can think of is Swiss luxury watch sector. Two decades ago $1000 could buy chronometer accuracy and finesse of fine engineering - today even $13000 could buy it - $30 2824-2 ETA caliber is slapped into fancy case and sold for $13,000. Proud owner does not know that he wears a badge of stupidity - his watch is essentially $300 watch with stupidity tax of $12,700. How far the brazeness goes can be seen from an example - new IWC Ingenieur is not antimagnetic :-). When someone comes to his senses and try to return the $13,000 watch that can not tell accurate time (+_ 30 seconds a day !) snotty dealer tells him that if he needs precision watch he should wear a plastic quartz, because someone who wears $13,000 need not worry about being punctual.

Such chutzpah is also common for audio industry types. Insult buyer that he is not sophisticated enough to value $20 000 system that has basic problem with projecting soundstage, not to mention buzzing or some other feature buyer is expected to swallow. They are not selling machines for quality music reproduction - most of the time they sell psychotherapy and brazen scam to the gullible that could afford it. No wonder customers walked away in droves. I hoped that digital sources, class D amps, ribbons, new materials and know-how would change the hi-fi landscape the same way PC, digital photography and Diesel engines changed landscape in the last 20 years. It did not happen, and probably it never will.

Active audiophile speaker? IMHO, it could happen, but in another lifetime, along with Holodeck.

Today, for the majority of consumers active speaker means Ipod dock with one powered 2.5" speaker in it.
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Re: WLAN zvucnici

Post by PrekoBare » 16 Jan 2012, 22:21

Gerner wrote::lol: :yhi

Well, Class D is not quite dead... yet http://www.6moons.com/industryfeatures/classd4/1.html

This is priceless : Perception in this racket is huge :yahoo

Srajan should copyright it and put this as masthead logo to 6Moon.
"Najbolje je neprijatelj dobrog"

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Re: WLAN zvucnici

Post by DejanM » 16 Jan 2012, 22:29

Gerner wrote::lol: :yhi

Well, Class D is not quite dead... yet http://www.6moons.com/industryfeatures/classd4/1.html
I listened some amps mentioned in this article.

Kharma has the typical signature of class D - "warm" sound that is very pleasing but not what I am looking for. I must admit that I enjoyed it a bit but it was so rounded, warmish, soft ....

Deviallet is a completely different story. It is not only class D but a combination with class A. It does sound clean, not at all warmish, but with Wilson Audio Sascha it was too agressive - I didn't like it very much.

I have heard Martins in Muenchen - but to be honest I do not remeber how they sounded ... maybe that tells also something about their sound. I do not know ...

Prices are really high ...

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Re: WLAN zvucnici

Post by DejanM » 17 Jan 2012, 07:15

There are though cheaper alternatives like Rotel, BelCanto, ... Pairing is certainly an issue here but it may be good alternative when the budget is tight.

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Re: WLAN zvucnici

Post by PrekoBare » 17 Jan 2012, 07:35

how about Wyred4Sound and their most powerfull offerings, 500w and 1000w?

I am sort of sceptical because the owners were learning electronic on pay as you go principle, and good component is more than the sum of cheap parts. However, the price is very tempting.
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Re: WLAN zvucnici

Post by DejanM » 17 Jan 2012, 08:42

PrekoBare wrote:how about Wyred4Sound and their most powerfull offerings, 500w and 1000w?

I am sort of sceptical because the owners were learning electronic on pay as you go principle, and good component is more than the sum of cheap parts. However, the price is very tempting.
Have you any experience with them ? On this side of ocean we do not have often the possibility to hear that brand ...

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Re: WLAN zvucnici

Post by PrekoBare » 17 Jan 2012, 15:14

DejanM wrote:
PrekoBare wrote:how about Wyred4Sound and their most powerfull offerings, 500w and 1000w?

I am sort of sceptical because the owners were learning electronic on pay as you go principle, and good component is more than the sum of cheap parts. However, the price is very tempting.
Have you any experience with them ? On this side of ocean we do not have often the possibility to hear that brand ...
No, I haven't. Their nearest dealer is farther from me than from you :-) They also sell direct, but it is to much hassle and cost to return or resell if I do not like it. 500wpc for $1500 (and no heating bill) sounds tempting, though.

offtopic, ne brinem se ja zbog povecanog RF smoga zbog zdravlja. Fukusima i dalje bljuje, pa bi briga oko WLAN bila cista hipohondrija. A i na manje od 40km imam dve nuklearke - u Sev. Americi je dozvoljena godisnja doza zracenja za opstu populaciju veca nego u EU, pa ti vidi.

RF smog me brine zato sto vecinasolidstate uredjaja koje sam video nisu uopste oklopljeni, tj. prilagodjeni za novi rezim rada
"Najbolje je neprijatelj dobrog"

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Re: WLAN zvucnici

Post by DejanM » 18 Jan 2012, 07:30

PrekoBare wrote:
DejanM wrote:
PrekoBare wrote:how about Wyred4Sound and their most powerfull offerings, 500w and 1000w?

I am sort of sceptical because the owners were learning electronic on pay as you go principle, and good component is more than the sum of cheap parts. However, the price is very tempting.
Have you any experience with them ? On this side of ocean we do not have often the possibility to hear that brand ...
No, I haven't. Their nearest dealer is farther from me than from you :-) They also sell direct, but it is to much hassle and cost to return or resell if I do not like it. 500wpc for $1500 (and no heating bill) sounds tempting, though.

offtopic, ne brinem se ja zbog povecanog RF smoga zbog zdravlja. Fukusima i dalje bljuje, pa bi briga oko WLAN bila cista hipohondrija. A i na manje od 40km imam dve nuklearke - u Sev. Americi je dozvoljena godisnja doza zracenja za opstu populaciju veca nego u EU, pa ti vidi.

RF smog me brine zato sto vecinasolidstate uredjaja koje sam video nisu uopste oklopljeni, tj. prilagodjeni za novi rezim rada

Ta VF zracenja su kriticna kod class D i ja ih zbog toga izbegavam. class D pojacala moraju da imaju dobro izolovana kucista ali takodje i sistem za sprecavanje unosenja zagadjenja u AC mrezu (preko napajanja). Vecina nema ovo drugo jer se to ne primecuje tako lako. Vecina medjutim ima dobru zastitu u prvom slucaju, jer se to lako primeti (recimo ometa gledanje TVa ili slusanje radia) pa moze da smanji prodaju ...

Ta mala zracenja koja izlaze iz kucista obicnih pojacala i ostalih uredjaja obicno nisu kriticna. Medjutim s obzirom da ih ima dosta u kuci i da se njihov efekat sabira, pitanje je kakve to posledice moze da ima na dugi vremenski rok ... Da li negde postoji neki link koji bi se pozabavio ovom temom ?

offtopic - u Evropi su takodje, nakon Cernobila, jednostavno podigli dozvoljene vrednosti za Cezijum i sve je bilo opet super. Podaci o porastu oboljenja od raka se ionako ne objavljuju javno. Sto bi rekao Mujo u onom vicu: " ma bolan vazno je da se para vrti" ....

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Re: WLAN zvucnici

Post by DejanM » 06 Feb 2012, 09:47

Dynaudio je napravio svoju verziju WLAN zvucnika. Ta serija zvucnika se zove: Xeo i ima prilicno ambicioznu specifikaciju:

http://www.dynaudio.com/int/xeo/XEO_What_is_Xeo.html

Kompaktni Xeo 3 kosta 1500 eura dok veci model Xeo 5 kosta 2900 eura.

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Re: WLAN zvucnici

Post by DejanM » 12 Feb 2012, 10:25

Jeftino resenje:

http://www.amazon.de/JBL-Control-Wirele ... 121&sr=8-2

JBL Control One je uvek bio odlican mali zvucnik za tu kintu a wireless verzija, za 170 eura, je i dalje zbilja odlican value.

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Re: WLAN zvucnici

Post by Sir Oliver » 12 Feb 2012, 19:29

U poslednje vreme sam se malo igrao muzičkim strimerima pa sam eksperimentisao i sa Apple AirPortom. Prijatno sam iznenadjen kvalitetom zvuka ovog mališe pogotovo preko DACa. Ozbiljna sprava. U ponudi postoji i ovako nešto.
ImageImage
http://www.digitaltrends.com/ipod-dock- ... -5-review/
Verovatno jedno od prihvatljivih rešenja za wireless zvučnike.

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Re: WLAN zvucnici

Post by DejanM » 07 May 2012, 19:11

Imao sam prilike da na sajmu u Minhenu poslusam Dynaudio Wireless bookshelf zvucnike. Sviraju jako lepo - meni se sound dopao. To nije nikakva igracka nego zbilja predstavlja dobar HiFi sistem a uz to je veoma praktican. Medjutim, izgleda da je ta ideja sa zvucnicima koji su mnogo vise od toga, polako uzima maha ...

Na istom sajmu sam mogao da slusam sistem americke firme: Wadax. Firma je dobila nekoliko nagrada za inovacije u audio tehnici a na sajmu su izlozili svoj najbolji i najskuplji sistem. Samo par zvucnika kosta 108.000 USD !!!
Wadax zvucnik.jpg
Wadax zvucnik.jpg (146 KiB) Viewed 2396 times
Wadax zvucnik.jpg
Wadax zvucnik.jpg (146 KiB) Viewed 2396 times
Sistem funkcionise tako da sa izvora (na sajmu je koriscen gramofon) signal ide u preamp koji poseduje A/D konvertore. Tako digitalizovan zvuk prolazi prvo kroz room correction system koji radi u digitalnom domenu. Onda se signal salje pomocu digitalnog coax kabla do zvucnika. Znaci veza izmedju zvucnika i preampa je pomocu digitalnog coax kabla. !!! Sam zvucnik je trosistemac sa ugradjena tri pojacala. Prvo radi klasi A i gura visokotonac. Druga dva pokrecu srednje i bass drivere i oni rade u klasi D. U samom zvucniku se nalazi DAC koji konvertuje digitalni signal pre nego sto ga posalje ka pojacalima. Ali to nije sve ...
Wadax system.jpg
Wadax system.jpg (186.99 KiB) Viewed 2396 times
Wadax system.jpg
Wadax system.jpg (186.99 KiB) Viewed 2396 times
U sam zvucnik ulazi i LAN (ethernet) kabl. Naime preko njega je zvucnik (ako se to moze tako nazvati) vezan za preamp i preko njega se vrsi kontrola parametara skretnice koja je digitalna. Kako sve to funkcionise, moze ovde vise da se procita:

http://www.wadax.eu/?page_id=761

A kako to svira ? Svira dobro ... ne nesto sto ce vas oboriti sa nogu, ali je zvuk ok. Doduse za te novce postoje i bolji zvucnici i bolji sistemi ali je ovo interesantan koncept, koji zbilja uvodi nove tehnologije u HiFi.

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